Ketones for Ultrarunning with Chiel Poffé PhD | KoopCast Episode #180

Episode overview:

Chiel Poffe is Postdoctoral researcher at KU Leven. His areas of focus are on energy metabolism and ketones. 

Episode highlights:

(32:56) Practical ketone use: best during high-intensity training, 25g after exercise and before sleep, individual variance, potential improved sleep, muscle recovery, cognitive benefits, cost

(39:38) Ultramarathon study results: complications with investigating performance, reaction time test, no cognitive decline in ketone groups, ketone increase dopamine levels, mechanistic speculation

(45:19) Ketones aid cognition in extreme circumstances: revisiting study design, parallels to the overtraining study, ketones inhibit cognitive decline rather than improving cognition, support from initial ketone research

Our conversation:

(0:00) Introduction: ketones are in the hype cycle, a “cure” for overtraining, KoopCast 10 with Jeff Browning, recovery and prevention of cognitive decline, skepticism, introducing Chiel

(2:48) Chiel’s background: one few labs studying ketones, carving a research niche

(5:07) What are ketones: changing perception of ketones, energy substrates produced by the liver, the fourth substrate in addition to carbs, fats, and protein, initial research, endogenous ketones are only produced in low-carb circumstances, exogenous ketones, no benefit to performance, shifting focus to recovery

(8:21) Ketones as a recovery tool: recap of research trends, examples, ketones increase erythropoietin (EPO), improving recovery and adaptive responses

(10:28) Format and dosage of ketones: ketone monoesters, ketone diesters, many commercial products are a waste of money, ketone esters are expensive because they are patented, real interventions are expensive, so use them properly

(13:43) Overtraining study design: participants were very overtrained, train to exhaustion every session, testing healthy non-athletes, cycling 2x / day, ketones post-session and pre-sleep

(16:56) Emphasizing study design: increasing volume, intensity, and frequency simultaneously, this does not simulate training, but was deliberate to highlight ketone effects, the Grand Tour for the untrained

(19:28) Methods and results: muscle biopsies, blood samples, heart rate, energy intake, ketones assisted energy intake and heart rate

(21:46) When ketones are useful: magnitude of physical disturbance, athletes likely need to be really overworked to see ketone benefits, ketones are an emergency substrate

(25:22) Abortive versus adaptive strategies: training example, ketones help with both, ketones increase muscle angiogenesis, reasonable training load still shows benefits, avoiding overtraining

(28:43) Energy intake: athletes on ketones naturally increased carbohydrate intake, methods, increased energy intake accounts for much of the benefit of ketones, there are other benefits

(31:45) Ketones and appetite: Tour de France example, some research shows ketones suppress appetite, ketones taste awful, they also change appetite hormones

(32:56) Practical ketone use: best during high-intensity training, 25g after exercise and before sleep, individual variance, potential improved sleep, muscle recovery, cognitive benefits, cost

(34:57) Ketones and sleep: a single day intervention improves sleep after hard exercise, potentially ketones improve dopamine in the brain, this does not mean ketones always improve sleep

(37:15) Ultramarathon study methods: cognitive ability is essential in long-distance ultras, study design, investigating performance, cognitive ability, and recovery

(39:38) Ultramarathon study results: complications with investigating performance, reaction time test, no cognitive decline in ketone groups, ketone increase dopamine levels, mechanistic speculation

(42:30) Performance and cognitive decline: the longer the event the greater the benefit from ketones, effects on RPE and reaction time, training to prevent cognitive decline

(45:19) Ketones aid cognition in extreme circumstances: revisiting study design, parallels to the overtraining study, ketones inhibit cognitive decline rather than improving cognition, support from initial ketone research

(47:15) The state of ketone research: changing perceptions, marketing, shift from performance enhancement to recovery, future research on clinical usage, the supplement cycle, future research on ketones at altitude, changes in the research landscape

(51:48) Cutting through the hype: no “cure” to overtraining, ketones are a final step for the well-trained athlete, use ketones after hard exercise to recover better

(54:10) The last 1%: training well is most important, parallel to altitude interventions, individuality, ketones are most important for elite athletes, there is more noise than signal at the elite level

(57:48) Wrap-up: where to find Chiel and stay up to date on ketones

(59:00) Outro: giving thanks, skepticism and use in extreme circumstances, good training is the best “cure” for overtraining, share the KoopCast, commitment to unsponsored and unbiased content

Additional resources:

Chiel on twitter

Ketone ester supplementation blunts overreaching symptoms during endurance training overload

Exogenous ketosis increases circulating dopamine concentration and maintains mental alertness in ultra-endurance exercis

Outside Online’s dumb headline that ketones cure overtraining

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Protein for Ultrarunning with Jose Antonio, PhD | KoopCast Episode #181

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Heat Training Interventions with Coach AJW | KoopCast Episode 179 (2022)