The Brain’s Role in Ultrarunning Performance with Scott Frey, PhD #215
Episode overview:
Dr. Scott H. Frey is an internationally renowned neuroscientist and psychologist, accomplished endurance athlete, author, and teacher. Scott helps individuals and groups identify and realize their aspirations. He can be reached at: Scott@CerebralPerformance.com
Episode highlights:
(29:00) Data and compromising effort levels: example of readiness scores harming mental preparation pre-race
(39:04) Feedback manipulation: training interventions, example of pacing for a closer finish line, interjecting uncertainty in cycling workouts, cycling racing example
(1:06:25) Strength of mental training interventions: interval analogy, medical analogy, randomized double blinded studies, placebo meta-analysis example, half of treatment is mental
Our conversation:
(0:00) Introduction: Dr. Scott Frey’s background, the brain’s role in durability and performance, takeaways
(2:02) This episode’s origin story: Dr. Frey listening to the previous KoopCast episode, the brain’s role in fatigue and durability, reaching out to Koop
(4:22) Biological bias: physiological bias of sports science, history, recognizing the role of the brain, transitioning from the central governor model to the psycho-biological model
(6:33) The brain’s role in fatigue: bringing sports psychology into the biological lens, Angelo Mosso and the laws of exhaustion, central and peripheral mechanisms, mental fatigue ergometer study
(10:07) The psycho-biological model: history and recent developments, Tim Noakes and Marcora
(12:56) Types of studies: blinded studies, examples, studies where nerve responses are blocked, athletes are capable of more than they think, RPE is consistent with or without nerve blocks
(16:20) The physiology of neuroscience: RPE is physiology, mechanisms behind RPE, predicting the future via past experience, endurance athletes are terrible at prediction, DNF examples
(19:43) Malleability of prediction: Boston Marathon example, applications for training, cycling analogy, collegiate running example
(23:00) Risk-taking and uncertainty: the goals of training unpredictability, the role of unknowns in ultramarathons, examples
(26:11) Trainability of the brain: conscious and subconscious regulations of effort
(27:24) Training interventions: feedback manipulations, wearables and data
(29:00) Data and compromising effort levels: example of readiness scores harming mental preparation pre-race
(31:58) Readiness and fatigue scores: environmental factors can change scores pre-race and throw athletes off, blinding athletes to readiness scores, educating athletes on scores
(34:34) Manipulating readiness scores: example of deliberately and secretly giving athletes positive numbers pre-race
(35:53) Overstimulation from data: how much information should athletes have, keeping training and racing similar, deliberately practice when your readiness score is low, HRV4Training
(38:22) Performing in imperfect situations: the role of data versus what athletes think about their data
(39:04) Feedback manipulation: training interventions, example of pacing for a closer finish line, interjecting uncertainty in cycling workouts, cycling racing example
(41:46) Tools for introducing uncertainty: indoor trainers, new Wahoo treadmill features
(44:43) Mental fatigue: effect on physical performance, mental fatigue from social media use, mental taper for races
(46:27) Study designs: appreciating practical examples of mental fatigue
(48:16) Training mental fatigue: setup, studies by Sam Marcora, learning is bound by context, introduce mental challenges while running, examples
(51:41) Exhaustion and cognitive performance: theorizing mental tasks to assess physical recovery, military example, humans are very responsive to training
(53:03) Training manipulations: pain and RPE can be preconditioned, pain studies with pre exposure, considering pain preconditioning in warm-ups, adjusting your tolerability threshold
(55:40) Counterargument to pain preconditioning: being prepared for the first hard effort, pain preconditioning is likely more relevant to shorter events, addressing tactical moves at the front of the pack
(58:06) Consecutive workouts: athletes becoming mentally acclimated to intensity on back-to-back days, personal anecdote on why the first workout is the hardest
(1:00:44) Introducing uncertainty: framework for randomizing the number of intervals in a workout
(1:02:21) Internal voice: speaking versus internal dialogue, speaking aloud quiets the voice in your head, “shut up legs”
(1:03:42) Takeaways: fatigue is both peripheral and central, mental and physical fatigue are intertwined, we need to consider training both systems, breaking new ground with mental training
(1:05:58) The importance of perception: perception is our reality
(1:06:25) Strength of mental training interventions: interval analogy, medical analogy, randomized double blinded studies, placebo meta-analysis example, half of treatment is mental
(1:10:48) Placebo is not fake: there are real physiological effects that should be considered seriously
(1:12:08) Elite athlete examples: performance improves despite plateauing physiology, learning to race, psychological reasons for improvement, examples
(1:14:53) The brain and ultimate performance: training example, cycling FTP example, race craft and knowledge, getting comfortable being uncomfortable, examples
(1:17:18) Individuality: physiology analogy, prescribing mental training in TrainingPeaks, the mental game is as important or more important than physiological gains at the elite level
(1:19:46) The future of mental training: progressive overload and periodized structure, mental training does not necessarily follow from physical training, collaborating with mental skills experts, examples
(1:22:04) Wrap-up: where to find Scott, cerebralperformance.com, Scott’s book in development
(1:23:55) Outro: giving thanks, share the KoopCast, sign up for Research Essentials for Ultrarunning
Additional resources:
https://www.cerebralperformance.com/
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Buy Training Essentials for Ultrarunning on Amazon or Audible
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